Full Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufo8BJ4ITCU

Host: Aquarius https://x.com/0xAquariusCap

Guest:

• Adeniyi Abiodun, Co-founder and CPO of Mysten Labs https://x.com/EmanAbio

• 犹太赵主任 Dustin, Leading Asian KOL https://x.com/zchrhrhr

• 潜水观察员 Patrick, Leading Asian KOL https://x.com/connectfarm1

Highlights

In a recent podcast hosted by Aquarius, Adeniyi Abiodun, co-founder and CPO of Mysten Labs, shared comprehensive insights into the Sui blockchain the general crypto ecosystem together with two asian KOLs Dustin (@zchrhrhr) and Patrick (@connectfarm1).

• Adeniyi highlighted several upcoming developments within the Sui ecosystem that showcase its commitment to technological advancement. The most notable upgrade is the transition to version two of Sui's consensus mechanism, which will reduce latency from 500 milliseconds to an impressive 300 milliseconds. This upgrade is set to make Sui one of the fastest blockchain platforms available. Additionally, Adeniyi introduced the SuiPlay0X1, a high-powered PC handheld gaming console with an OLED screen, supporting both web2 and web3 games. This device aims to build a robust gaming economy around Sui by allowing users to earn NFTs and own assets while playing games.

• Adeniyi addressed significant challenges facing the blockchain space, particularly the issue of liquidity in staking and restaking for layer ones and twos. He emphasized the need for real adoption through applications that add tangible value to users' daily lives. Adeniyi criticized the current focus on token acquisition and staking, advocating for a shift towards developing utility-driven tokens and user-friendly apps. He argued that integrating DeFi elements into gaming and other everyday applications could drive mass adoption by simplifying user interactions with blockchain technology.

• Adeniyi expressed confidence in Sui's competitive position among layer 1 blockchains. He noted that Sui's top transaction volumes, user adoption, programmable transaction blocks, and low gas fees make it an ideal platform for DeFi and other applications. Sui aims to attract traditional web2 companies to its platform by offering scalable infrastructure that efficiently handles increasing demand.

• The discussion also covered strategies for achieving mass adoption. Patrick and Adeniyi both highlighted the importance of balancing decentralization with high performance. Adeniyi mentioned that the initial high cost of running a validator on Sui is due to the network's newness, but plans are underway to lower these barriers, making validation more accessible and distributed. Future updates will also include light clients that can run on low-power devices, further increasing accessibility and decentralization.

• Adeniyi shared insights into the types of projects thriving within the Sui ecosystem. He highlighted innovative projects like Karrier One, which is developing a global decentralized infrastructure for telecom services, and Playtron, which is building the gaming Android OS of the future on Sui. Another exciting project is Walrus, aimed at creating a global storage layer more powerful than AWS and Google. These projects are focused on real-world applications and mass adoption, which align with Sui's vision for the future.

• Looking ahead, Adeniyi outlined Sui's roadmap, including the launch of notable stablecoins and the release of version two of their consensus mechanism. He emphasized Sui's commitment to enabling applications that capture and engage users, providing developers with the necessary tools to build innovative apps. Adeniyi expressed optimism about the potential for meme coins on Sui, noting that early initiatives like Hopper and Double Up are already making waves.

• Adeniyi concluded by discussing the importance of broader user adoption and the development of creator tokens and assets with real utility. He believes these elements will drive future growth and establish Sui as a leading platform in the web3 space.

Introduction

Hazel: Welcome everyone to today's episode of the podcast. I'm really excited to have you all with us. This is Hazel from Aquarius. I'll be your host for today's discussion. Founded in 2018, Aquarius manages venture capital and liquid funds, specializing in pre-seed and seed investments. We offer comprehensive support including on-chain liquidity management and global KOL marketing. Recently, we launched a 600 million liquid fund to institutionalize functional liquidity management. Today, we have some incredible guests joining us: Adeniyi, the co-founder and CPO of Mysten Labs, along with two of my favorite Chinese KOLs, Patrick and Dustin. Let's kick things off with some introductions. Adeniyi, could you briefly share a bit about yourself and your journey in the web3 space? Patrick and Dustin, please feel free to jump in after him.

• Adeniyi: Hi there. My name's Adeniyi, Co-founder and Chief Product Officer of Mysten Labs. I've been in crypto since 2011. I was working at a leading investment bank at the time, and I found out about crypto when one of my colleagues was playing around with it. I read the paper on Bitcoin and was very excited about it. Initially, I thought it was a scam, but then I dug deeper, looked at the code, and started mining Bitcoin myself. It quickly turned into a business as friends needed help mining too. I built one of the biggest Bitcoin mining companies in Europe, which got acquired by a business in the Bay Area in America. After that, I worked at Oracle, then VMware to launch their blockchain projects, and later at Facebook (Meta), where I led product work on building Libra, Facebook's blockchain project. The engineers and developers I met there are now here at Mysten building Sui.

• Patrick: I joined this area about 7 years ago, focusing on building a significant KOL matrix in the APAC area, managing KOLs, and enhancing community engagement.

• Dustin: I entered the crypto space in late 2016, early 2017, when I first bought Bitcoin. I was introduced to the space by some amazing friends back in Silicon Valley while I was doing venture capital. In 2017, ICOs were all the buzz, and everyone in Silicon Valley was talking about them. I vividly remember an app called HQ Trivia where comments would constantly pop up, encouraging people to buy Bitcoin, Litecoin, and other ICO-related assets. This environment drew me into the crypto space. Since then, I have been deeply involved in venture investments within the crypto sector, participating in numerous venture and angel investments. Some of these investments have been listed on larger exchanges. In 2019, I began incubating my own projects, some of which performed quite well during the DeFi summer. Currently, my main focus is on incubating, helping, and investing in new projects in the DeFi area. I'm actively exploring new opportunities in this space. Again, thank you for inviting us.

Technical Upgrades

Hazel: That's super cool. Thank you all for those great introductions. It's fascinating to hear how different paths lead to crypto. Let's talk about some exciting updates. Adeniyi, are there any upcoming developments or partnerships within the Sui ecosystem that you're particularly excited about?

• Adeniyi: There are quite a few things to look forward to. We recently announced that we are upgrading to version two consensus for Sui. As some might not know, Sui already has one of the fastest consensus algorithms in the space, with latency around 500 milliseconds. This will soon be upgraded to approximately 300 milliseconds. Not only does Sui have a block unit that scales horizontally, but it also doesn't have a maximum throughput limit, making it an industry leader in terms of latency.

• We are also excited about the preorders for the SuiPlay0X1. This is a game console that we are launching, which is a high-powered PC handheld device with an OLED screen and high specifications. It supports both web2 and web3 games. We have partnered with a platform to build this device; the same team that developed the Android operating system is behind it. We are thrilled about the vast number of games that will be coming to Sui. These games will be fully integrated, allowing you to play Sui-based games and traditional web2 games. You will be able to earn NFTs, own your assets, and help build a gaming economy around Sui.

• So, the gaming partnerships and the technical upgrades that we have coming on the network are particularly exciting.

Market

Hazel: That sounds really promising. Let's broaden the scope and talk about the market as a whole. Adeniyi, Patrick, and Dustin, what do you think are the biggest problems facing the blockchain space today, and what are the most effective ways to address these challenges?

• Dustin: That's a great question, especially given the market fluctuations we've been experiencing. From a financial standpoint, the biggest challenge currently facing the industry is liquidity. Everyone is engaging in staking or risk-taking, particularly with layer ones and layer twos, including Ethereum layer twos. The innovation during this cycle has been focused on locking tokens and restricting their accessibility to general users. This creates a contradiction because, on one hand, we talk about mass adoption and permissionless systems, but on the other hand, we build products that limit access to tokens. We aim for token prices to rise and create deflationary models, branding them as advantageous. For example, Binance conducts buybacks and destroys tokens, and Ethereum's transition to PoS has also led to deflation. However, we also want more people to join the market, which creates a paradox. How will the industry reconcile this contradiction? Right now, we're building something on one side while contradicting it on the other. Thank you.

• Adeniyi: I think my addition to that is that crypto has been playing the same games for the last three to four years. It’s been about acquiring tokens, staking them, and constraining supply. Periodically, the market experiences decimation, and we start over with the next new trend. What we really need in the web3 space is real adoption through applications that add value to daily lives. Most people don't engage in DeFi or staking because it’s too complex. We need to move away from these cycles and create services that people can actually use and find valuable. For example, at Facebook, we devised ways for people to leverage web3 without making it obvious. While we love intellectual discussions about crypto, the reality is that 99.9% of the market won't get it. Mass growth will come from bringing in average users, and one way we’re trying to do that is through gaming. Games can integrate DeFi elements seamlessly, allowing users to buy, sell, or liquidate tokens directly in the game without realizing they’re using web3. Normally, these problems are solved with complex in-game mechanics, but web3’s interoperability bridges these gaps. Tokens need to be seen less as commodities and more as utilities, giving people reasons to use them. Every network currently struggles with this, but we need to reach a point where millions of average users use these networks at scale.

• Patrick: I agree with both of you. The biggest challenge right now is the reward application. We have a lot of DeFi, staking, and lending, but they are just playing around with each other without real substance. Many projects call themselves value chains but keep doing the same things with DEXs and lending without true applications. This is why I like Sui. I see Sui trying to incorporate real-world applications through gaming and payments. The solution is to attract normal users and make them unaware they’re using web3. This is the key to solving the challenge.

Hazel: You all mentioned token incentives and new applications. Adeniyi, how do you position Sui among the numerous layer 1 blockchains available today? How does Sui plan to maintain its competitive edge?

• Adeniyi: This might sound a bit controversial and perhaps aggressive, but I'm not particularly worried about other chains. Quite frankly, when we were at Facebook, the technology hadn't evolved significantly since 2017. This realization led us to build a new company focused on Layer 1, because we saw that despite the hype around new innovations, it was all the same. Features like Parallel EVM are essentially incremental improvements with no substantial breakthroughs.

• For example, right now, Sui is actually among the top two blockchains for trading volume, surpassing even Solana in some metrics. We can play the web3 game and derive significant value from it, but what truly matters is real user adoption. Sui has over 100,000 daily active users, making it one of the top blockchains in terms of user engagement. It's also the best chain for trading because of our programmable transaction blocks, which allow users to chain transactions across 20 to 30 DeFi protocols in one go. The gas fees are the lowest in the industry, making Sui ideal for DeFi and Degen activities due to its superior primitives. More exciting, however, is that traditional web2 companies can utilize Sui.

• Comparing Sui to other long-standing chains, we've achieved more transactions than Bitcoin faster than any blockchain in history. From a usability perspective, Sui has primitives that make it extremely user-friendly. For instance, users can log into any website using just their Google account, providing a self-custodial experience without the need to remember passwords. Sui employs zk technology extensively for onboarding, not for scalability, since Sui doesn't face scalability issues. This technology simplifies user onboarding significantly. We also have sponsored transactions, where users transact without worrying about gas fees. In Sui, users don't need to worry about wallets or gas fees, as these can be handled in the background, potentially sponsored by ads. Users engage with Sui without even realizing it. When you visit a website today, you don't think about whether it's hosted on Google or Amazon; you just appreciate the site itself.

• One crucial measure of infrastructure is its scalability with adoption. At Google and Facebook, we built platforms like search, Facebook infrastructure, WhatsApp, and Instagram to scale horizontally. We never worried about maximum capacity; if we needed more, we just added more machines. Similarly, Sui scales horizontally. Every blockchain talks about TPS (transactions per second), but with Sui, we simply add more machines to increase capacity. In its current configuration, Sui handles 300,000 transactions per second, which is already 30 times faster than the next fastest chain. Adding more machines further increases TPS exponentially. We have addressed scalability and performance challenges; now it's about user adoption. We're excited about the developments you'll see from September this year, which will set Sui apart from other chains. These advancements are what we are truly passionate about.

Hazel: Thank you so much for the insight. Those are really valuable. From your perspective, what are the keys to mass adoption?

• Patrick: Currently, I'm not seeing any mass adoption of crypto in the real world. I don't mean to be critical, but I have some questions about Sui. You mentioned that TPS can be doubled or tripled by adding more machines. However, this seems very centralized because it requires a high amount of staking in Sui and expensive hardware. Does this align with the principles of decentralization that crypto is supposed to uphold?

• Adeniyi: That's a very good question. Right now, the cost to run a validator on Sui is about 25 million SUI, which is indeed high. This is because the network is new, having launched just over a year ago. The goal for the first year has been robustness, ensuring we have high-value validators to maintain a robust network. We're planning updates to significantly lower the barrier to entry for validators, reducing the required SUI to around 1 to 3 million. Our hardware requirements are already lower than most chains, and Sui performs 100 times faster. The cost per compute on Sui is the lowest in the industry. Imagine a world with 400, 500, or even 1,000 validators. If we need to double the TPS, we simply double the machines each validator uses. However, expecting to run a network capable of 50 million transactions per second on a laptop is unrealistic. Sui also supports light clients and light validators, allowing validation with minimal hardware. This model allows a core set of validators to process high-speed transactions, while an infinite number of light validators ensure the network's integrity. This combination of high-performance validators and light clients provides scalability without compromising decentralization. The team is working on light clients. It's a matter of prioritization. This month, we're focusing on an upgrade to reduce latency by 80%. Following that, we'll improve the fast path for transaction finality and then work on light clients. In the past year, we've released significant innovations like ZK login, on-chain randomness, and the fastest consensus protocol. Sui aims to be the easiest platform for developers, with apps up and running in as little as 12 hours.

• Dustin: Building blockchain, web3, and even the metaverse involves creating a virtual society. For any economy, you need two things: return on capital and return on labor. Sui's approach of introducing people to crypto through gaming is smart because DeFi alone involves traders trading among themselves. The cost of capital is well understood in the space, but the return on labor is not. Engaging with protocols through activities like airdrops provides some rewards, but these are often poorly calculated. Gaming, however, can measure contributions and reward users accordingly, making it an excellent tool for driving adoption. By promoting crypto games, we can attract more people to the space. Additionally, decentralized physical infrastructure (DePIN) is another promising area. Some projects are combining gaming and DePIN, creating consumer electronics that serve as engagement gateways. These devices measure user engagement with games, merging the physical and digital worlds to drive mass adoption. So, combining gaming with DePIN could be key to achieving mass adoption in the crypto space.

Ecosystem

Hazel: That's a really interesting perspective. Since you mentioned different verticals like gaming and DePIN, what are the types of projects you really like in the Sui ecosystem? What other projects would you like to see more of?

• Adeniyi: There are quite a few projects in this area. Speaking of DeFi, we have two high-quality DeFi projects coming to Sui. One of them is Carrier One, a telecoms company based in Canada, launching a global decentralized infrastructure for carrier-grade telecoms.

• Carrier One is unique because it allows you to run your own radio signal and tower, effectively getting paid for it. This is enterprise-grade telecom hardware, not like what exists in other ecosystems. Top telecoms companies can directly pay you by connecting to your hardware. This hasn't been achieved before on a carrier-grade level, so it can potentially see broad adoption. Additionally, Carrier One offers SIM protection with two-factor authentication that prevents SIM swapping, which is very valuable. While this will be available for many ecosystems, it is powered by Sui due to its unique capabilities.

• In gaming, we focus on studios with millions of followers and players because we believe gaming can significantly grow DeFi. DeFi currently involves a lot of trading among users, but integrating it with gaming brings in millions of passive users, increasing the value of DeFi protocols. An example is Playtron, which is building the gaming Android OS of the future on Sui.

• We also announced Walrus, a global storage layer and the first proof-of-stake storage network as powerful, if not more so, than AWS and Google. It can run websites, data availability layers, and people are already building layer twos on it. Sui builders are using Walrus as core infrastructure for decentralized apps.

• Additionally, we have amazing DeFi protocols. For instance, Navi Scallop is already among the top 20 DeFi protocols across web3, showing the future direction for builders looking to adopt a chain for their next application.

Patrick: I have a few comments about those projects, and I think they are good projects. However, I have a small question: what do you guys think will happen with those projects after the incentives stop? Currently, we see a lot of accounts in those projects engaging in loop lending just to earn the incentives. I have a friend who runs a liquid fund and uses that strategy. They are not actually using the products; they are just hunting for incentives. I'm a little bit worried about what will happen when the incentives end.

• Adeniyi: Yeah, that's a good question. One way to think about liquidity is to ensure you have good, sticky liquidity that is actually useful. One metric I look at is the trading volume. If you look at Sui yesterday alone, there was over 100 million in trading volume within the Sui ecosystem. The majority of the rewards given to users, more than 80%, came from trading fees, not incentives. So, Sui is already reaching a point where it is getting valuable and usable liquidity. The difference is that, if you think about liquidating Sui versus other protocols, it's much more valuable. This is because we have something called programmable transaction blocks, which allow you to effectively chain transactions across multiple DEXs simultaneously. We have proper aggregate, aftermath aggregate, and fluids aggregate, which find the best trading route across the chain for any asset you want to trade. This means you have better utility for liquidity in Sui than in any other protocol. I'm not worried about incentives as a whole for the Sui ecosystem. I think we are already seeing organic growth in trading volume. Yesterday alone, Sui did over 60 million in trading volume, and most of the rewards given to users came from trading rewards, not incentives. So, I believe we have a healthier DeFi system than some of the more modern EVM chains that have been around for much longer.

• Dustin: I also want to weigh in a little bit on this question. I've been investing in different projects and protocols since 2023. The problem you mentioned for layer ones is not as severe as it is for Ethereum L2s. Currently, all these Ethereum layer twos are subsidizing their DeFi protocols to acquire and retain users. For example, Arbitrum is throwing all its grants and rewards at GMX and GNS, the top two projects on its platform. If you trade on the Gains Network right now and make it to the top leaderboard, the rewards are massive. All these Ethereum L2s don't have their tokens as the gas token; the gas token is still ETH. But for L1s, it's a different story because all the TVL is calculated in their native token. Take Sui, for instance. People are locking Sui in DeFi protocols, but for Ethereum layer twos, people are locking USDT and WETH as TVL. These layer twos have to subsidize to attract good dApps and product developers to acquire and retain customers. On the other hand, their tokens, such as ARB or OP, are not calculated as TVL, so they have to give out their tokens in exchange for real money like WETH and USDT. But things are different for layer ones. L1s like Sui don't have to do this. All we need to do is let Sui itself flow as it should.

Hazel: How do you see the roles of Layer 1 and Layer 2 solutions evolving in the blockchain landscape? Will Layer 1 outpace Layer 2 or vice versa?

• Dustin: Layer 2 solutions should primarily focus on Ethereum due to its large size and multi-billion-dollar valuation. Unlike Ethereum, platforms like Sui have co-founders and core contributors who can provide clear direction, which isn't possible with Ethereum due to its decentralized nature. Ethereum's vast ecosystem requires distributing resources and development efforts across various L2s, each backed by strong supporters and fostering innovation within specific niches. For example, each L2 has its niche: Base is backed by Coinbase, known for meme coins, Mantle by Bybit, and Linea by ConsenSys. These L2s drive the Ethereum ecosystem forward by fostering innovation. On the other hand, L1s like Sui focus on specific goals or roadmaps, such as mass adoption through gaming (GameFi). Ethereum allows these L2s to build niches and compete with specialized L1s. This competition between L1s and L2s is essential for the ecosystem's growth. Ethereum, being decentralized, benefits from this competitive dynamic. In summary, L2s are crucial for driving the Ethereum ecosystem forward and competing with L1s, which are more agile and determined.

• Patrick: I think L2s are very useful. After EIP-4844, rollups and L2s are developing well. Vitalik and the founder of Celestia have proposed more modular blockchains. For those wanting decentralization, efficiency, and capacity, rollups are essential. We can make TPS very fast with solutions like Solana, but Ethereum offers the most original blockchain approach. Rollups are crucial for achieving blockchain's mass adoption.

• Adeniyi: I agree. Ethereum has chosen its architecture, and deviating from that is hard. The roadmap for scaling Ethereum has been long-standing. Different organizations should work together to build variants of Ethereum that scale better. It's more about coordinating people than technology. We've seen projects building Ethereum L2s on Sui. Sui, being horizontally scalable, doesn't need L2s for performance. However, some L2s use Sui as a better coordination layer, utilizing Sui's consensus and gas to scale Ethereum. This approach is promising but complex. Ultimately, I think only early web3 adopters will use these technologies at scale. The mass market won't due to its fragility. This approach is contrary to how we should build web infrastructure. Nevertheless, there's a captive market for this technology, and we need to serve it.

Outlooks

Hazel: As we look ahead, Adeniyi, can you share Sui's roadmap and main focuses for the near future?

• Adeniyi: There are multiple things in the pipeline. Sui will soon have some notable stablecoins natively on-chain. We're also going to release the SuiPlay0X1, which will be showcased extensively during Korea Blockchain Week. Additionally, we'll be rolling out version two of our consensus algorithm this month, followed by on-chain randomness next month.

• Our perspective is that for web3 to progress to the next level, we need applications that truly engage users. Developers are quickly realizing that there are applications they can build on Sui that are simply not feasible on Solana, Ethereum, or any other platform. We're targeting the 12 million JavaScript developers, not just the 20,000 web3 developers. Our team has decades of experience building developer platforms, and we understand how to create tools that developers love to use. This is why the developer experience on Sui is often described as ten times better than on other platforms. We are passionate about this, and it is a key reason why Sui is already a top two blockchain in terms of volume and adoption on the EVM.

• Our primary goal for this year is to onboard more decentralized applications (dApps). Many games are finally going live, and we're starting to see real users engaging with web3 without even realizing it. We recently introduced subdomains for the naming service, where instead of using dot notation, you can use the @ symbol (e.g., yourname@dapp). This makes it easier for users to interact with services and receive airdrops.

• We believe that introducing web2-like services directly on-chain in web3 will create new ways of building user interactions that were previously impossible. We will continue to innovate and build tools that everyday users can easily adopt. You'll see amazing developers like those behind Navi, Scallop, Cetus, Aftermath, and Hop integrating these tools and reaching more mainstream users, not just early adopters.

Hazel: That's amazing. One fun question from our community: When do you think we'll see a meme coin season on Sui?

• Adeniyi: People do love memes, and it's really an extension of community building. Meme season is currently very hot on Solana and Base, and I believe it's eventually coming to Sui. We've already seen Hop.fun create their own meme launcher, which is launching very soon on Sui, and Double Up, which has built one of the best online gambling sites I've ever seen, has also built a fun meme launcher on their site.

• We're already seeing the early signs of meme culture taking off on Sui, and I'm excited to see where it goes. Memes on Sui will definitely be different; beyond just launching a token, you'll be able to build engagement tools around your community, making it much more interactive and sticky than just a token. This will set Sui memes apart from others. We're looking forward to seeing what builders come up with, as we're focused on providing the infrastructure to enable developers to be as creative as possible. What they build will be amazing, and we can't wait to see it.

Hazel: Lastly, what's your vision for this cycle and the next? Which verticals are you most excited about?

• Patrick: For this cycle, I've observed a lot of developments, not only in the crypto space but also in terms of regulations. We see initiatives like the ETF being approved, which means crypto is now becoming more mainstream globally. I believe the crypto world will not grow as rapidly as before, but it will continue to expand in line with the inflation of the US dollar. Additionally, I've noticed many interesting projects this time, such as the Bitcoin inscription ecosystem, which explores new types of assets. For the next season, I would like to see more technological innovation and projects like Sui's introduction of on-chain randomness. These innovations are fascinating, along with the regulatory advancements.

• Dustin: Especially after yesterday's market fluctuations, we have a better understanding of the cycle. Adeniyi joined the crypto space in the early 2010s, around 2013, and I joined in 2017. I think Patrick entered the space around the same time. From my perspective, I don't believe in the traditional Bitcoin halving cycle. Instead, I have my own theory on the cycle of credit expansion. Each bull market begins with an asset creation event, such as ICOs in 2017 and DeFi and NFTs in 2021 and 2022. These events create a plethora of new assets within a short period, initiating the asset creation cycle. This is followed by two cycles of credit expansion. In early 2018, after the ICO boom, the market downturn led to significant losses. People began leveraging their assets to obtain more capital, pushing the market price from around $3,800 to about $14,000 in mid-2019. After this peak, the market corrected to around $6,000 by the end of 2019. During this time, centralized exchanges introduced perpetual trading functions, increasing leverage opportunities. This pattern continued until the global liquidity event in March 2020, which wiped out many early investors. However, this completed the cycle, and a new one began in mid-2020 with projects like YAM and SushiSwap. In 2023, we observed more on-chain leverage through platforms like Compound, Aave, and MakerDAO. In 2024, trading of perpetual contracts expanded on-chain. This trend indicates a shift towards on-chain leverage, previously confined to centralized exchanges. After a period of high leverage, we can expect a liquidation event that will reset the market. I predict this will occur around early 2025, marking the start of a new cycle.

• Adeniyi: It's about cycles of asset creation and the subsequent obliteration of participants, followed by a comeback. We need broader user adoption and less risky use cases. Leverage is extremely dangerous, as we saw with credit default swaps in traditional finance. Crypto needs to enable use cases that are accessible to mass users with minimal friction. I don't believe meme coins are the best way to onboard users, as it often leads to a poor experience. Instead, I think creator tokens and assets with real utility are the way forward. These should provide value and stickiness beyond mere speculation. This approach will help build a more robust and sustainable ecosystem. We're very bullish on this and believe it will happen, which is why we're building a Layer 1 blockchain.

Hazel: Thank you all for sharing your insights and taking the time to join us today. I've learned a lot from your views. Adeniyi, Patrick, and Dustin, this has been a fantastic discussion.

• Adeniyi, Patrick, Dustin: Thank you for inviting us.

Disclaimer: This post is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute investment advice, recommendations, or a solicitation to buy or sell any securities. It should not be used as the basis for making any investment decision and should not be relied upon for accounting, legal, tax advice, or investment recommendations. You are encouraged to consult your own advisers regarding legal, business, tax, or other related matters concerning any investment decisions. Certain information included here may have been obtained from third-party sources, including portfolio companies of funds managed by Aquarius. The opinions expressed in this post are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the views of Aquarius or its affiliates. These opinions are subject to change without notice and may not be updated.